The Los Angeles Times reported Thursday that French Foreign Minister Alain Juppé said in a radio interview that he had raised the idea of establishing "humanitarian corridors" in Syria with U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and would be discussing it with the Arab League.[1] -- A complete transcript of Alain Juppé's interview with Patrick Cohen on France Inter Thursday morning (in which he addresses international, national, and also local issues, since even as he is minister of foreign affairs he is also the mayor of Bordeaux -- something the French call a "cumul vertical des mandats") is posted below. -- Juppé said: "Yesterday I received a delegation from the Syrian National Council led by a university professor -- who speaks French perfectly, by the way -- whose name is Burhan Ghalioun. They described to me what is happening in Syria. It's scandalous. It's unacceptable. It's a repression of a savagery that we haven't seen for a long time. Today we've reached the point where the forces of the regime are besieging cities simply because they're rising up to fight for their freedom. And it's the Syrian National Council that told me: You have to propose humanitarian corridors because there is, today, a humanitarian problem with basic necessities that have run out. That's why after this meeting I notified our partners at the United Nations -- I spoke with Hillary Clinton; we're speaking today with the Arab League -- to see how we can set up these humanitarian corridors."[2] -- He put his proposal in the context of what "we did in Libya," but added that while there might be a need "to protect the humanitarian corridors," "there has been no discussion of military options in Syria." -- He also added that "For us there is no intervention possible without an international mandate." ...
1.
FRANCE SEEKING BACKING FOR HUMANITARIAN CORRIDORS IN SYRIA
By Alexandra Zavis
Los Angeles Times
November 24, 2011
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2011/11/france-syria-humanitarian-corridor.html
BEIRUT -- France is seeking international backing for a proposal to establish so-called humanitarian corridors in Syria to get aid to besieged areas of the country, where the government has turned its guns on protesters and armed insurgents demanding the ouster of President Bashar Assad.
In an interview with France Inter radio, French Foreign Minister Alain Juppé said he had raised the idea with the United Nations and U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and would discuss it with Arab foreign ministers meeting in Cairo on Thursday to consider imposing sanctions on Syria. (Link in French [translated below, #2].)
The proposal, which emerged from a meeting Wednesday between Juppé and representatives of the opposition Syrian National Council, is likely to alarm Assad, who has repeatedly accused Western nations of pursuing a Libya-style military intervention.
France led efforts to impose a no-fly zone in Libya and took an active role in air strikes that helped topple the country’s longtime leader, Moammar Kadafi. But Juppé said Thursday that military intervention in Syria was not under consideration.
He said one option would be to persuade Syria’s government to authorize humanitarian corridors. If Syria refuses, he said, international observers could be deployed. But he said, “No intervention is possible without an international mandate.”
The European Union said Thursday that protecting civilians caught up in the crackdown "is an increasingly urgent and important aspect" of responding to the violence, according to the Associated Press. But the statement stopped short of endorsing Juppé's proposal.
The United Nations says at least 3,500 people have been killed in the crackdown. The opposition Local Coordination Committees reported 15 more deaths Thursday, most of them in the Homs region, the epicenter of the uprising. Syria has restricted access to journalists and the figures could not be independently verified.
Assad's government blames the violence on armed "terrorists" and says more than 1,000 security force members have also been killed.
Pressure has been mounting on Assad over his handling of the unrest. The Arab League suspended Syria for failing to implement a peace plan that Damascus signed Nov. 2 calling on the government to withdraw its forces from cities and towns and to hold talks with the opposition.
Arab foreign ministers are now threatening to impose sanctions unless Syria allows an observer mission into the country, though they have repeatedly extended the deadline in an apparent effort to salvage the peace initiative.
Assad has labeled the League's plan a "pretext" for Western military intervention.
2.
[Translated from France Inter broadcast]
L'invité
[INTERVIEW WITH ALAIN JUPPÉ]
By Patrick Cohen
France Inter
November 24, 2011
http://www.franceinter.fr/player/reecouter?play=224473
Patrick Cohen: The mayor of Bordeaux and minister of foreign affairs is the guest of France Inter this morning. Bonjour, Alain Juppé.
Alain Juppé: Bonjour. And a warm welcome to France Inter in Bordeaux. (applause)
Patrick Cohen: I introduced you in that order (applause).... and you are applauded... I introduced you in that order because we are in Bordeaux before an audience of residents of Bordeaux and we're going to talk about Bordeaux with residents of Bordeaux...
Alain Juppé: I hope so.
Patrick Cohen: ...but as Bernard Guetta just said, the world is in turmoil. You are at the outposts of those developments. France... euh... you have just mentioned the possibility of humanitarian corridors. Why, how, and with whom, Alain Juppé?
Alain Juppé: Yesterday I received a delegation from the Syrian National Council led by a university professor -- who speaks French perfectly, by the way -- whose name is Burhan Ghalioun. They described to me what is happening in Syria. It's scandalous. It's unacceptable. It's a repression of a savagery that we haven't seen for a long time. Today we've reached the point where the forces of the regime are besieging cities simply because they're rising up to fight for their freedom. And it's the Syrian National Council that told me: You have to propose humanitarian corridors because there is, today, a humanitarian problem with basic necessities that have run out. That's why after this meeting I notified our partners at the United Nations -- I spoke with Hillary Clinton; we're speaking today with the Arab League -- to see how we can set up these humanitarian corridors.
Patrick Cohen: That means protected zones...
Alain Juppé: That means, as we did in Libya, moreover, corridors in which humanitarian organizations -- the Red Cross, for example -- can get in, for example, medical supplies. Now that implies two possible configurations. The first is that the international community, the United Nations, the Arab League, obtain from the regime that it authorize these humanitarian corridors. That has been done elsewhere. If that's not done we could envisage other solutions, but I'd like to say...
Patrick Cohen: Other solutions... military ones?
Alain Juppé: I heard you -- it's possible to protect the humanitarian corridors. But we haven't reached that point yet.
Bernard Guetta: Protect militarily?
Alain Juppé: Of course. By international observers. That was done in Libya, as I just said. But I would like say, Monsieur Guetta, that I spent 48 hours in Turkey, I saw every Turkish official, the Turkish president, the prime minister, the minister of foreign affairs -- there has been no discussion of military options in Syria.
Patrick Cohen: Not military options, but possible military means that would be under either an international flag or the U.N. flag, or with a coalition of forces...
Alain Juppé: For us there is no intervention possible, even a humanitarian one, without an international mandate, naturally.
Patrick Cohen: The euro crisis. Even Germany is vulnerable to the market. Yesterday we saw that the European economy that is apparently the strongest had trouble financing itself. Is it a new warning signal? Should this make Angela Merkel and the German leaders reflect, or yield?
Alain Juppé: It's a serious situation. We shouldn't underestimate its seriousness. You're right, today it's affecting every economy, even the strongest. And it's serious because quite a bit is at stake. If the eurozone broke up, it's the European Union that would break up. In other words, everything we've built, us, and those who went before us, over the past fifty years. We should remember in what shape the continent was in fifty or sixty years ago. It was the most continent that tore itself apart the most. And the European Union -- at first, the [European] Community -- brought peace. So let's be careful not to go backwards. It's thus for that reason that we are fighting to save the eurozone and save the construction of Europe. That means that what is needed -- excuse my using this word, which we use sometimes without knowing what it means -- is better governance of the eurozone. You can't have a single currency if you don't have budgetary policies, economic policies, fiscal policies that are coordinated, especially between Germany and France. We are making proposals that go in that direction. Also, to confront what is a crisis of mistrust, really, because -- we need to analyze what is happening -- our economies are strong economies. I travel a lot beyond the borders of Bordeaux -- that's my job at present -- and I can tell you that seen from the outside the European Union remains the world's number one economic power and the world's number one commercial power. China is catching up, but we're still number one. So we have strong fundamentals. What we don't have is confidence. Those famous markets -- which exist, that's how it is -- they don't have confidence in what's going on. And that's what we have to reestablish. That's why -- I think, and I hope that this thinking will be more and more widely shared -- that the European Central Bank should play an essential role in reestablishing that confidence.
Patrick Cohen: Could there be an exchange, a deal, between France and Germany, a treaty reform, that France didn't want and which Germany was eager for, against the intervention of the ECB, which German leaders are refusing?
Alain Juppé: That's not how it works. You don't try to make deals. What we're looking for is, in fact, compromises. We're not always in agreement about the analysis...
Patrick Cohen: That's what a deal is...
Alain Juppé: ...yes, but the word 'deal' I don't like too much, that's all...
Patrick Cohen: ...all right, an exchange...
Alain Juppé: Excuse me. Excuse me for this quibbling over vocabulary. So we're in the midst of discussions, at first we're not in agreement, and you see that for months now we've ended up agreeing. France has never been against revising the treaties, it's just saying that revising the treaties takes a lot of time. Twenty-seven of us have to agree, and then the twenty-seven parliaments have to ratify. That can take years.
Patrick Cohen: Can an intervention by the ECB be fast?
Alain Juppé: But it's urgent! It's urgent!
Patrick Cohen: But could it be done quickly?
Alain Juppé: This is playing out day by day. We're going to have discussions. Today, in fact, in Strasbourg, with the new Italian president of the council [Mario Monti, the new prime minister], Madame Merkel, Monsieur Sarkozy. I'd like to emphasize how much the President of the Republic [i.e. Sarkozy] is taking the initiative in all this. In all this he is constantly where he needs to be ('au créneau'). I saw him working at the G20 in Cannes, and he has a relationship of close confidence with the German chancellor.
Patrick Cohen: In this climate of crisis and austerity, at a moment when the French government is pointing out where finances have gotten out of kilter, some communities -- Bordeaux, Mister Mayor, your city, is undertaking as a project a new 40,000-seat stadium. It's an investment of 180 million euros, about 10% of which is paid by the city of Bordeaux. Is this reasonable? Isn't this a pre-crisis project that you're undertaking, Alain Juppé?
Alain Juppé: I'd like to emphasize that the club is paying half.
Patrick Cohen: Hm?
Alain Juppé: And you're right to point out that the city is paying 10%.
Patrick Cohen: Hm.
Alain Juppé: Because the state is helping us, and the other communities are helping us, it's a project that has consensus. The region [Aquitaine] supports us, the urban community supports us.
Patrick Cohen: But afterwards, with debt that lasts thirty years, though.
Alain Juppé: Yes, but...
Patrick Cohen: ...3,600,000 euros annually.
Alain Juppé: Of course: that's a part of the global calculation. Overall, this project, if you evaluate it in present-day euros, costs 200 million, approximately, there's the 100 contributed by the club, and the rest. I'd just like to keep things in perspective. Right now I'm preparing next year's budget for the city of Bordeaux, and in particular, its investment budget. The stadium amounts to 3.6 million. If you compare to what we're investing in education, in day nurseries ('crèches'), in neighborhood gyms, and in libraries, that's ten times more. Thirty-six million. We're investing ten times as much in schools, day nurseries, neighborhood gyms, and libraries as in the stadium. (cries from the audience) That's the proportion, and so...
Patrick Cohen: But the question, Alain Juppé, bears on the usefulness of the project...
Alain Juppé: I'll tell you...
Patrick Cohen: ... with the Girondins [the Football Club des Girondins de Bordeaux] who game after game are sinking and who are going to find themselves in League 2 next season!
Alain Juppé: Listen, let's not be pessimistic! (applause, whistles, but also booing)
Patrick Cohen: The reaction in the room is mixed.
Alain Juppé: What, are you applauding the Girondins, over there? (cries from the audience) No, let's show a little serenity about this. The Girondins were French national champions in 2010, if I'm not mistaken, excuse me, in 2009, in 2010 things weren't so good. We'll see what happens in 2012 and 2013...
Patrick Cohen: ...and it's getting worse...
Alain Juppé: ...no -- today? I'm talking about 2012 and 2013. We don't know. They can come back. And also, I want to insist on the fact that a stadium is a great site for conviviality... (jeers) ... yes it is! It is! I see that those in favor of the stadium aren't in the majority here today. (laughter) And I respect each person's point of view. That's how it is. I'd like to ask you: what is the event that every two weeks brings together on average more than 27,000 people in Bordeaux? There isn't any -- there isn't! And so I think that for the dynamics of a city, for its influence, for the social fabric of the city, the existence of a modern stadium -- because it's not only a big stadium, it's a modern stadium -- is absolutely essential. And why is the city of Lille -- which is not UMP! -- why is the city of Lyons -- which is not UMP! -- I could cite other examples, are giving themselves big modern stadiums? It's not a mayor's whim!
Patrick Cohen: Bordeaux wants to be like the others.
Alain Juppé: No, we're all alike because it's important for the influence ('le rayonnement') of our cities.
Patrick Cohen: So the Juppé of Bordeaux is not out of step with the Juppé who is minister of a government of stringent public finances.
Alain Juppé: Listen, let's stick to the subject. Let's stick to the subject! (applause) In fact, the question is excellent. It's an excellent question! Because if austerity consists in cutting all investment projects, then, in fact, we'll be making a big mistake. Because the stadium is hundreds of jobs for years for the people who are going to build it. The same for the TGV line for Bordeaux is thousands of jobs for years. And yes, today the right policy is to find savings in the expenses of keeping things running, and to continue to invest, and the local communities are the top investors in France. If we stopped investing it would be a catastrophe for the French economy! (applause)
Patrick Cohen: Alain Juppé, France Inter's guest this morning here live from Bordeaux. We'll be back in a few minutes with questions from the audience which, as you see, is very reactive here...
Alain Juppé: And are not all of one mind!
Patrick Cohen: It's 8:30 a.m.
--
Translated by Mark K. Jensen
Associate Professor of French
Department of Languages and Literatures
Pacific Lutheran University
Tacoma, WA 98447-0003
Phone: 253-535-7219
Webpage: http://www.plu.edu/~jensenmk/
Email:
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