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[Translated from "Les Quatre Vérités"]

FRANÇOIS HOLLANDE, First secretary of the Parti Socialiste
Interviewed by Françoise Laborde

Les Quatre Vérités
France 2
June 18, 2008

FRANÇOISE LABORDE: Welcome to everyone to "Les Quatre Vérités" ('Home Truths') with, today, Françoise Hollande, first secretary of the Parti Socialiste, who is with us and who will comment on the main points of the news. Bonjour, thank you for being with us.

FRANÇOIS HOLLANDE: Bonjour.

FRANÇOISE LABORDE: Let's begin with the white paper on the military that was presented at La Défense, that was presented yesterday -- 54,000 posts eliminated, the closing of about thirty garrisons -- we don't know exactly yet. Do you think that the state is deserting, as it were?

FRANÇOIS HOLLANDE: I think the state is pulling back, and that there's no strategic vision. There's only a budgetary logic. We have to save some money. The treasury is empty, and instead of thinking of defense in a European context, in a global context, we pull back on resources, which has two consequences. The first is that there are going to be 54,000 positions eliminated, both civilian and military, and the second consequence is that France is going to be reintegrated into NATO. So I challenge this sprig that has been planted by Nicolas Sarkozy, and I don't think I'm the only one. Within the command, among the military, there is a lot of concern. How are the armed forces going to carry out their missions, since there will be fewer of them, and they don't know how they will manage them? And secondly, why do we have to be reintegrated into NATO? And on that point, it's Nicolas Sarkozy who is above all responsible.

FRANÇOISE LABORDE: Before we come back to this question of NATO, the president of the Republic, in any case, says that for him, the function of the defense is not to improve the situation at home, which can be a problem for elected officials, including for you, in Tulle, right? I notice that there is a site at risk there. [NOTE: Hollande represents Tulle in the Assemblée Nationale since 1997, and was also député from Tulle in 1988-1993; he was also mayor of Tulle from 2001 to 2008. -- A city of 15,000 in southwestern France, Tulle is the site of an arms factory. --M.K.J.] It's a problem for elected officials, but the armed forces are not there for improving the situation at home.

FRANÇOIS HOLLANDE: It's true, the role of the armed forces is to protect us. The role of defense is to ensure the protection of our country, and especially to allow us to carry out missions beyond our borders. So it's both to make of our territory a sanctuary and to play our role in maintaining the peace. But it's necessary to have the means to correspond to that strategy, which can hardly change. That's the way we see it. It's not at all for a white paper which has placed France in a situation in which it would invent, or would imagine, its defense for the future. It's a plan for reducing the costs. It's a money-saving measure. I'm not saying we don't have to save money, and in particular in the defense sector. I say that we can't simply look at the protection of France through the lens of budgetary savings and job cuts.

FRANÇOISE LABORDE: Sure, but haven't we put off for years recognizing that the world has changed since the fall of the Berlin Wall, when the balance of forces is not exactly the same, and that the French armed forces have to adapt to a "new deal" internationally?

FRANÇOIS HOLLANDE: They have to adapt. First of all, because there are new threats, and moreover there's a priority that seems good to me --

FRANÇOISE LABORDE: On intelligence.

FRANÇOIS HOLLANDE: On intelligence. And there, I think, we have to agree. We need, after all, to know what is going on outside, and here, so all the funds for that need to be freed up. And secondly, it would have been a good idea to conceptualize our defense on a European scale! We can't just fall back to the borders of France, and refer the rest to NATO. So it's in this sense that there's a marriage of budgetary savings and a conception of strategy which goes backward.

FRANÇOISE LABORDE: That means that when the president of the Republic says that he recommends rejoining the NATO command provided that the European defense project be restarted, you don't really believe much in that condition?

FRANÇOIS HOLLANDE: Well, it's disappeared! The proof is that it isn't really evoked through this white paper, or strategic plan, or whatever you want to call it. So we're going directly toward NATO because we didn't succeed in carrying out the European defense project.

FRANÇOISE LABORDE: Let's turn now to the recent demonstrations. Yesterday -- a little less, it seems, than predicted. The Socialists were expected in a number of the marches, and then -- well, I don't really know --

FRANÇOIS HOLLANDE: The role of the Socialists is to be in the Assemblée Nationale and the Senate, to address the government, which will be done this afternoon. I think that one's role has to be played -- not that we shouldn't be in marches, and we're there, whenever it's necessary. What is expected of the opposition is that it be able to express a contrary view, and also alternative measures. And on that point, I'd like to insist. It's not the dismantling of the 35-hour week that's at issue. That's already been accomplished. It's the entire organization of labor that is going to be threatened. Since by way of the bill that the government is going to present, supposedly to bring an end to the 35-hour week, we're going to allow, company by company, exemptions from the rules on time at work, and the organization of work as laid out in the general rules. So this is a very important point!

FRANÇOISE LABORDE: And the point of view of the government is that we're going to, on the contrary, allow flexibility, to make available overtime hours, so that everyone can benefit from members of the team, can be more productive, and that that begins to be possible at 35 hours, which is beneficial for the employee.

FRANÇOIS HOLLANDE: Today, we have the 35-hour week, but we have the real situation, which often goes much further than this or that agreement with this or that company, because there are general rules that allow that. So let's not pretend that the 35-hour week is a straitjacket and that it's not possible to work overtime. You can have as many as 220 [overtime] hours, so it's absolutely possible. No -- what the government wants to do, because it was presented with an agreement between MEDEF [an employers' association] and two large labor unions, the CFDT and the CGT, that they were ready to experiment, saying: we're ready to discuss, and to find, in some cases, experimental ways, and even, eventually, new forms of flexibility. It says: that's not what I want. Because what does the government want? And this is why the role of the Socialists and the opposition in the parliament is going to be to resist this disorganization, this dismantling. The government wants to make an issue of the length of the work week, pay for overtime, since in each organization, it will be possible, through an agreement, without even an agreement with a labor union, with a delegation of people who are not going to have much authority, to have an exemption from the general rules.

FRANÇOISE LABORDE: Since we're talking of social movements, radio and television, today, are going to demonstrate, are on strike -- that's why we're in this studio, which is smaller than usual -- are you worried about the development, the future, of the recommendations regarding public broadcasting?

FRANÇOIS HOLLANDE: Yes, I am worried, and I think everyone can understand this concern: the resources that till now have been those from advertising, in public broadcasting. You can like or not like advertising, but it provided resources. They are going to disappear, since the president of the Republic himself decided on it. So there will have to be equivalent resources to finance public broadcasting, everybody can understand that. There'll be no more advertising, there will have to be something else. What are they telling us? You can't tax the privatized channels. You can't raise the user fee. You can't get higher contributions from the shareholders. Therefore, there will be a cut in the budget. In any case, everything is being cut. Sarkozy's presidency is the miniaturized presidency. Is the presidency of less. So -- as we were saying -- less for defense, less regulation of work, now there'll be fewer public services in radio and television, less money, so what do we do? We reorganize France 3? So, instead of having twenty or so local news teams, who help to be closer to TV viewers, we'll cut them to seven. We'll recentralize. That also goes for the armed forces, it goes for the organization of the state, it goes for television. What will it mean for TV viewers? They'll have public services that are of lower quality, that will have less money to report the news, and, in addition, we'll give away gifts. Because there, too, the Sarkozy presidency is the gift presidency. We give gifts to the richest people -- we call that "the fiscal package" --, we give gifts to those who have the most, in particular to certain employers, and now we're giving gifts to the private-sector channels. We introduce the second cut in advertising -- less advertising, no advertising on the public channels, and more advertising -- more advertising -- on the private channels. And so, it's true, there will be no more money for the public channels. That's what you call the end of public broadcasting.

FRANÇOISE LABORDE: Let's go back to economic questions for a minute. The index applied to social security system accounts are publishing some deficit figures, and it turns out that in the end it's because more people are retiring than was anticipated.

FRANÇOIS HOLLANDE: There is a social security deficit that's really very troubling -- 9 billion euros, last year it was 10 billion euros -- so every year, there are 10 billion euros. And how do we manage to finance them? They build up, and we're even talking about raising taxes, because we have, after all, to pay off that debt. What's the responsibility? We're told now -- the finger points at us, and we're told: "It's not the government's fault, it's not the fault of the policies that are being followed, it's the fault of those who have paid into the system for more than forty years. Can you imagine? They're retiring." So if it's to prepare us for there calling into question what was, after all, the compensation in the [2003] Fillon law on the lengthening of the pay-in period, I can tell you, that is definitely going to strengthen the mobilizations -- let me remind you, they may be fewer today because there's a sort of lassitude, but I think there's a sort of anger now that is individual, it's because people can't take it anymore -- the price of gas, calling into question of the work week, they want to put retirements on the table -- for a lot of our fellow citizens, we've had enough!

FRANÇOISE LABORDE: Just a word before we go back to the top, I can put it that way -- the Parti Socialiste is preparing the November convention in Rheims. In the end, of all the candidates there isn't one that stands out, doesn't it come back to you?

FRANÇOIS HOLLANDE: The convention of the Parti Socialiste is not a candidates' competition. We're not choosing there the candidate for the presidential election. It's on the basis of policy orientation, voting on policies, on policy texts, that we have to get together, and we'll find a first secretary, and I want him to be the strongest possible, the most responsible possible, the most unifying possible, but I'm not at all worried, there has to be one who corresponds to this portrait, which ought to be a tableau d'honneur (honor roll).

FRANÇOISE LABORDE: Thank you, François Hollande. We go now to the rest of Télématin and the weather.

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Translated by Mark K. Jensen
Associate Professor of French
Department of Languages and Literatures
Pacific Lutheran University
Tacoma, WA 98447-0003
Phone: 253-535-7219
Web page: http://www.plu.edu/~jensenmk/
E-mail: jensenmk@plu.edu